Monday, October 30, 2006

Lullaby spammie

Something about this particular spam strikes a chord of deep comfort within Pretty Lady. Perhaps it is the lateness of the hour, and the excellence of the wine, and the success of the party she just threw, but she really likes this one. It is rather like a lullaby.

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Bob said...

" a philosophy rife with superstition, fanaticism, evangelism and irrationility."

I am not one who has bought into this invisible but all-powerful creator stuff so successfully promoted by organized religion, the idea that there is a non-human entity somewhere out there that promises either eternal bliss ot eternal damnation, a supposedly all-powerful intellect that created us imperfect and then requires that we beg forgiveness for our imperfect lives, or damns us forever.

However, I don't deny that there just might be an all-powerful creation "force" of some sort. I just haven't seen any evidence that this "force" has manifested itself into our lives as some angry and world-flooding god, or kindly old man god, or Gaia the nature-loving god, or any other variety of god or gods humans have chosen to worship over the centuries.

I just don't know... and there is not a cult, religion, book or collection of letters that has come even close to proving the existance of any one the various competing gods that so many subscribe to.

I am open to any line of evidence or research that actually demonstrates any sort of physical proof.

I see that as reasonable, since if I am to accept that some invisible but all-powerful entity is to run my life and determine the fate of my "soul" for eternity, I rightly expect that entity to demonstrate its existance with something a bit more substantial than the personal belief of its followers, or a few letters and a book or two written by humans who had their own reasons and agendas.

I do not consider any of this as a demonstration of superstition, fanaticism, evangelism or irrationality.

Rather, I consider the mindless acceptance of such an entity as nothing more than superstition, the hard-nosed support of such an entity as fanaticism, the promotion of this supposed entity's validity as evangelism, and in my view, all completley irrational.

In other words, I see the devout believer exactly as you see the athiest.

But that's what makes a ball game, right?

Pretty Lady said...

Bob, it goes like this:

1) Moral chaos, anarchy, every man for himself; socially unsustainable, for obvious reasons.

2) Organized religion: a set of rules of conduct which promote the continuity and well-being of society in general, supported by a generally accepted 'myth' which is unprovable, but provides a sharp stick with which to keep miscreants in line.

3) Good faith atheism/agnosticism: exactly what you describe. Challenging the verifiability of the 'sharp stick,' while conceding (I hope) the benefits of ethical behavior as outlined in the religious tradition.

4) Mysticism: an acknowledgement, usually come upon by slow degrees, that there is more to the world than can be proven by science or reason; an inchoate intimation of the presence of the Divine; occasional direct experience of the Divine, which cannot be communicated in words, but is usually arrived at by focussed ethical and meditative practices over time, as outlined in various religious traditions.

The kind of atheism I am discussing here is a highly twisted version of #3, which is actually a manifestation of #1, masked by an attempt at rationality. It is not so much a sincere disbelief in the Divine, as a cloaked rage toward the Divine, or the perceived interference of an ethical code with the untrammelled desires of the ego.

So, despite my archness and wordiness, I hope you believe that I do not at all think of you in the same class as my abusive ex-boyfriend.

Bob said...

Good grief, no. I don't think that.

I would prefer that God does exist, along with an immortal soul.

But it would need to be a God that does not harm, does not exhibit any human emotions, does not drown the world.

"Be ye perfect, even as your Father in heaven is perfect".

Well, we can't be perfect, being imperfect beings, but it's a nice goal. But that does indicate that God is perfect, and thusly not subject to any human frailties or emotions. I know we all like to think that God "loves", but if God can love then God can hate, and that is not perfection... and not God.

If your God is an angry, vengeful God, your god is not God, but perhaps the devil in disguise, or so it would seem to seem to me.

But... I just don't know.

All I ask is something concrete to demonstrate it all, not your feelings(no offense meant), not somebody's claimed miracle, not some priest sayng so whilst passing out the collection plate.

Pretty Lady said...

But it would need to be a God that does not harm, does not exhibit any human emotions, does not drown the world.

The God that I, personally, believe in, and have upon occasion directly experienced, is the one you describe. I believe that the notions of vengeance described in the Old Testament are a combination of projection, and of an attempt to integrate the residue of several historical pagan mythologies into a monotheistic religion. Someone noted recently that the described character of God varies wildly, depending upon which Old Testament book you're reading--this is because originally, the stories were about different 'gods' entirely.

Many people do not agree with my perspective, of course.

All I ask is something concrete to demonstrate it all, not your feelings(no offense meant), not somebody's claimed miracle

Of course. All you need is your OWN directly experienced, directly verifiable miracle. This is entirely possible, and indeed cannot fail to occur, at the right time and in the right place--unless, of course, Pretty Lady is completely insane, which is also a possibility.

Miracles can, indeed, spontaneously occur, even in the presence of the most skeptical and unprepared mind. However, they will never occur if their net result will be to increase fear. You see, God cannot give us what we do not want, or do not allow. This, I believe, is the essence of 'free will'--we can choose to accept what is given, or to deny it.

Which is why the experience of miracles comes most often to the prepared mind--one which has been living ethically, clearing itself of resistance through practices such as meditation, yoga, or prayer, and generally expecting, or at least not disallowing, the possibility of miracles.

I could, of course, cite any number of references to support these wild assertions, but I believe they would not carry any more weight with you than the sources you have already encountered. All I can say is that I, personally, am certain of this information, through direct experience.

That's all anyone can say, really.

Pretty Lady said...

if God can love then God can hate, and that is not perfection

Er, no. God CAN not love. God IS love. Second shortest verse in Bible; surely you've come across it?

I think we frequently get mixed up as to what love actually is. It is an action, a force, not a feeling. It can have the result of producing feelings, of course, but in its essence it simply is.

If you don't believe me, think--can you perform a loving action toward a person whom you have no feelings for, or even negative feelings for? Conversely, have you ever acted destructively toward someone you feel you love? What's that about?